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November 14, 2007

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Tarry Singh

Indeed, Chuck!

An alternative to VMware does not mean that VMware has to perish. An alternative to VMware means that the customers get to choose depending on their requirements. We are seeing some movement from Citrix's end and some good promising movements from open source management perspectives (like that of openQRM) but I keep yelling : "Stop this battle of the hypervisors!"

Customers are not interested in virtualization, as you point out, their focus is on more serious issues: Resources (both human and non-human) allocation and optimization, Efficiency and obviously security. Adding another layer, be it VMware, Xen, KVM, xVM (which Jonathan will talk about in OOW today) or any other, will simply mean that (1) It has to be managed (2) since its another software stack, it needs to be secured.

Extreme caution and creativity is required to combat that and also try to keep those costs down while the data centers grow as content, in many cases, quadruples (test, development, staging and production).

My worry is that the customers have a much bigger burden to shoulder than the rest of the vendors. Good, inter-operable management platform will/should eventually help them get out daedal nebulae of the renewed multi-vendor lock. Responsible vendors, whether open source or proprietary, will shine out eventually and that is how their businesses will grow.

Marc Farley

Oracle's announcement does seem to lack meat. Mostly a statement that some of their applications will run on Xen and that they will attempt to support them. What's the point? Does this mean they don't support their apps on VMware? I certainly know customers of ours that run Oracle on VMware and everything works fine.

Eugene Sergejew

I couldn't agree with your comments more, Chuck. Oracle's innane and reprehensible per-core licensing model tells the world all they need to know about Oracle's
'commitment' to server virtualisation.
I spent last week working for a customer who has a very sound and well-advanced server virtualisation strategy - which excludes all their Oracle hosts - simply because of the ridiculous costs Oracle imposes on shared hardware. I see a big future for Oracle alternatives....

Mark

I, for one, as an EMC and Oracle customer, am thrilled to hear that they will support Xen, and welcomed their announcement without reservation. I think it sad to find an EMC executive crying and whining because the poor vendor's point of view isn't represented and that their favorite virtualization platform (VMware) isn't getting all of the attention. I think EMC could learn something from Oracle in this instance. Yes it is true that "all of these benefits [virtualization] accrue to the customer, and not directly to the application vendor", but is also true that a benefit for a customer is ultimately a benefit for the application vendor. Chuck may be disappointed in Oracle but I'm disappointed in EMC.

Chuck Hollis

I thought I'd post your rather unique point of view, and invite others to comment on your perspectives.

I'd also offer that it's possible to disagree without being disagreeable ...

Thanks!

Mark

I don't mean to be disagreeable but I do disagree and I don’t mean to offend. EMC should be working to leverage Oracle's announcement for the good of its (EMCs) customers. In short, instead of complaining about Oracle's strategy take the initiative and give your customers some value-added that they would not have had otherwise.

For example, EMC could offer Oracle’s VMs pre-configured to run EMC products (such as Documentum). Fill in the blanks where they apply to EMC products and leave the rest to Oracle or other application vendors to implement.

I understand that if a customer has a large investment in VMware (or some other product) then it might not be such great news but it is still better than nothing and you can’t fault Oracle for not meeting every expectation or at least you should hope that your customers don’t have such high expectations of EMC.

Chuck Hollis

So, I'm not really clear as to what you might be asking for here.

Do you want to see increased support for Xen in terms of EMC products, e.g. storage, replication, backup, management, security, etc. much as we have done for VMware?

Or, are you asking that we offer EMC software products in Xen-based software containers, much as we're starting to do for VMware?

Or, is more specifically about EMC endorsing and/or supporting Oracle's specific distro/branding of the same Xen found in RHEL, SuSE and others?

I'd also be curious as to your reasons for wanting Xen (regardless of distro) rather than VMware support.

The reason being is that supporting each and every flavor of hypervisor virtualization will entail some cost -- of course, we'd want to understand why someone sees an advantage one way or another.

Thanks!

Chuck Hollis

I'm sorry, Tarry, somehow I didn't see your comment and was neglectful in posting it here.

I think it's inevitable that we'll see many hypervisors in the market before too long, and -- eventually -- they become near-commodities.

Differentiation will come with the "everything else": management, integration, compatibility, performance, etc.

I'm not knocking alternative hypervisors; I'm knocking Oracle slapping their name on an open-source offering and calling it their "virtualization strategy".

Certainly, I think their customers deserve better.

Chuck Hollis

Hi Marc -- your comment was lost in the same pile as Tarry's, and I overlooked it -- my apologies to you both.

Oracle runs *perfectly* in VMware (we too have many, many customers who are doing it), ditto for the Microsoft products, and the SAP products, and ... well, none of these software vendors have said 'we support it' for reasons I tried to explain.

Having it work, and having a vendor stand behind it are two different things in this world.

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Chuck Hollis


  • Chuck Hollis
    VP -- Global Marketing CTO
    EMC Corporation

    Chuck has been with EMC for 13 years, most of them pretty good.

    He enjoys speaking to customer and industry audiences about a variety of technology topics, and -- of course -- enjoys blogging.

    He lives in Holliston, MA with his wife, three kids and three dogs when he's not travelling. Chuck enjoys piano, mountain biking, boating and skiing -- in that order.

    Warning: do not buy him a drink when there is a piano nearby.

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